Bob Knight on death of John Wooden … the silence is deafening, and revealing
Jun 11, 2010, 3:00 PM EDT
Interesting that, as so many climb over each other this month to canonize John Wooden, there are a few notable names not on board with the hallelujahs. Practically everyone in sports media — or at least those with Twitter accounts — stopped just short of creating the coach’s likeness in stained glass at the news of his passing on June 4. Yes, Wooden was a great coach. And yep, he touched many lives; including far more than just the players he coached. But to deny the man’s blemishes at a time like this is to actually diminish his overall beauty. Sorry to report: John Wooden was not God. Two things that need to be pointed out:
* If Wooden is, as I’ve been hearing over and over again this month, the greatest basketball coach of all time, why did Pete Newell absolutely own him? The late Cal coach (the real best coach ever, in my opinion) had an 8-0 record against Wooden over their final eight meetings.
* Why are so many ignoring the Sam Gilbert factor? It’s widely known that Gilbert played fast and loose with NCAA rules all during the UCLA hoops dynasty; Wooden even himself acknowledging that he should have paid more attention to what was going on. It’s also most likely the reason, according to some, that Knight has been silent thus far on Wooden’s passing.
Anthony Schoettle in today’s Indianapolis Business Journal:
Knight and Wooden were giants of the sport, and no two men advanced the game, and quite frankly, advanced the business of the game, more than these two.
But the truth is, they didn’t like each other.
Knight has publicly stated that Wooden let the likes of Sam Gilbert, a notorious booster who allegedly provided some UCLA players with gifts in violation of NCAA rules, remain far too close to the Bruins’ program.
Knight was even quoted as saying you won’t find anyone like Gilbert loitering around the IU program while he was coach. Clearly, Knight thought Wooden turned a blind eye to things he shouldn’t have, allowing UCLA alums to buy talent that fueled the school’s magical hoops run of the 1960s and 1970s.
And Bill Livingston of the Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote on Thursday:
When Indiana’s Calbert Cheaney won the John Wooden Award as college basketball’s best player in 1993, he wasn’t present in Los Angeles to receive his prize. A taped acceptance speech stood in for him. Nor was his coach, Bob Knight, present.
The award was presented while Indiana had classes scheduled, which provided a convenient excuse. The subtext of the absence of Knight and his prize player was Knight’s reluctance to be associated with the award named for the UCLA coach.
Wooden didn’t care for Knight either, although he admired the IU coach’s talent. No two major coaches were more opposite in their approach to teaching. Wooden was your grandfather, who, if he caught you shoplifting a candy bar, would sit you down and tell you a story about how he walked 10 miles to return some change he found in the sofa. Knight was your uncle, who saw the same crime and turned you over to the cops. But not before making you eat the wrapper.
Hey, both got results. My opinion? Wooden was somewhat of a phony, quoting Bible verses while, in plain sight, Gilbert gouged the NCAA rulebook with a devil’s pitchfork. Knight was a better tactician, and scrupulously honest. But he was flawed as well, as the fingerprints on Neil Reed’s throat will attest. Too bad we couldn’t combine the best qualities of these two great coaches; then we’d really have something.
Oh wait, we did. His name was Pete Newell.
***
Differences drove wedge between Knight and Wooden [Indiana Business Journal]
John Wooden was the king of a different (and not pristine) era in college basketball [Cleveland Plain Dealer]
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- Chris - Jun 12, 2010 at 6:04 PM
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After having read this article Mr. chandler, I am not ready to see you tarred and feathered for having an opinion; however, I don’t agree.
Here’s somethng I notice about America, not just sports, if you will indulge me. We love our heroes, up until they get to be heroic with all the acclaim that follows it. Now that MR. WOODEN is gone, it has become necessary to denigrate his career and his character. What is wrong with us? I believe I read that he felt he should have gotten a handle on the questionable relationships with Sam Gilbert and his players. A previous comment came from someone who said that ALL prgrams are dirty in some way, shape, or form. I believe that at one time or another you will find stains of impropriety or unethical behavior in everyone. Not excusing it, only recognizing that we are human and subject to the seven cardinal sins. I don’t see John Wooden as a saint; I see him as a good and decent man who loved basketball, his players, and humanity in general.
As for Mr. Knight, I respect his talent, his tactical ability, and his desire to win. I didn’t respect his means to an end attitude. Beating up chairs, walls, vases, and even players is not a quality of character that I admire. I have little problem with people getting mad and angry over a disappoinment. His reactions, however, brought a lot of unwarranted attention and criticism to his program. I am old enough (think 62) to remember Ohio State’s Woody Hayes stepping over the sideline marker and putting a forearm into an opposing player becuase his team was going to lose. After continually apologizing for him, they rightfully canned him. Knight should have had that happen to him a long time ago. Couldn’t be done though because he became bigger than the sport at Indiana. Who knows, maybe the same kind of win at all cost “friend of the program” like UCLA’s Sam Gilbert intervened time and time again to save his job. I would argue that they kept him on beyond a reasonable tenure strictly because his winning percentage was great. Great enough in fact to excuse his behavior. Go to this link,
http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/people/k/knight_bob/knight.html,
and you will get an idea of arrogance and hubris to the nth degree.
This is what sums it up for me. If I had a son good enough to play for John Wooden or Bobby Knight, who would I choose? I would choose the man who ” makes a clinic” out of how to tie your shoes. I guess it’s because I am older, but I like that pyramid of success principles. I watched people speak about John wooden, and little was said about his basketball prowess by his players, but a great amount was said about his worth as a human being and how he shaped their lives forty years after they left UCLA. I have little respect for Knight as a man, and I have immense for respect for Wooden as a human being.
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- BigBill - Jun 12, 2010 at 6:05 PM
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It IS pretty easy to beat a guy with a club when he’s dead…..he can’t swing back
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- AZ Lady - Jun 12, 2010 at 6:26 PM
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Coach Knight is great. Coach Wooden was great. You don’t have to run down the other to prove your point. They were different BUT great.
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- Kevin Smith - Jun 12, 2010 at 6:27 PM
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I supposed all these people who are saying what a great coach Wooden was, and choose to just overlook the cheating to achieve his record, would say the same about Pete Carroll. The end justifies the means.
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- Miguel - Jun 12, 2010 at 6:29 PM
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Pete WHOewell? Yeah wake me up when people know who he is outside of basketball circles.
Bob Knight is a complete self righteous *******. His own arrogance did him in.
Wooden’s grandpa act was kinda mythologized to the point of ridiculousness, I’ll grant you that, but don’t ever mention knight and newell in the same universe with a 10 championship winning legend ever again. It’s simply foolish and petty.
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- SonofCalifornia - Jun 12, 2010 at 6:32 PM
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Cal’s Pete Newell was legendary and OWNED ucla and Wooden…that is all he said.
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- Schmoopy - Jun 12, 2010 at 6:57 PM
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He didn’t even mention the fact that the effort to fund Pauley Pavilion was led by Nixon henchmen H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman.
http://www.reference.com/browse/Pauley_Pavilion
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- Ron - Jun 12, 2010 at 7:12 PM
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I agree, its yellow journalism but that is they way it is these days…these guys need a job and they write anything and everything to get a rise out of people.
Rick Chandler has succeeded in this and is no doubt gloating as to his “success” at raising people’s blood pressures with all the responses to this thread.
Never mind that any such allegations went unproved. Never mind that comparing Wooden to Knight is absolutely “out of bounds,” and never mind that Pete Newell won one national championship to Wooden’s ten. I am not sure why Newell is even in this discussion.
In any event, name calling is uncalled for. So is wishing people to die. Having said that, Chandler is either intellectual dishonest or mentally deficient. I don’t know the man well enough to figure out if it is the former or the latter.
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- john pileggi - Jun 12, 2010 at 8:42 PM
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Bobby Knight (as he was known when John Wooden was alive) could not shine Wooden’s shoes. John Wooden was no saint, and no one else is. He had the good fortune to have won and have retired before the 24 hour news cycle, cable TV and players leaving after freshman year. That meant he was not subject to a great deal that today puts tarnish on coaches. But, he Knight has been a jerk for his entire career, which spans the Wooden era through recent times. He is a bully, a loud mouth, arrogant, a liar and just plain mean.
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- Sam - Jun 12, 2010 at 9:39 PM
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Wooden won 2 national championships before Lew Alcindor (Kareem came to UCLA) and 2 betweem Alcindor and Walton and 1 more after Walton left. That tells you the number of championships Wooden won without two of the greatest centers in basketball history. He modified his team with their strenghts (the 64 and 65 teams) That takes great coaching and preparation. Other than that, he coached the same way with all of his teams (pre-championship until he retired in 75) Wooden is class.
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- Brian - Jun 13, 2010 at 1:08 AM
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Rick,
Wow, I’ve never read a more disrespectful article in my entire life! You are lower than low, my friend! If you actually would read the Bible, you would realize that the only perfect man in the history of the world was Jesus Christ. We ALL make mistakes (including you and your BFF Pete Newell), dude. However, the difference between Wooden and Knight (one of many) is that Wooden’s life wasn’t defined by his mistakes. The same won’t be said for Bob Knight when he dies, I’m sure. Knight may have more total wins than Wooden, but he won’t have the number of national titles and, more importantly, won’t be known for living a life of integrity. That is most important of all. Get a life, dude.
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- DeAnte Mitchell - Jun 13, 2010 at 3:01 PM
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Good post, check out this blog.
http://www.collegiatehoops.blogspot.com
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- Rolo Tomassi - Jun 13, 2010 at 9:36 PM
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Judging from the number of comments and the close-mindedness in 68 percent of ‘em, one question springs to mind, “Was on-line porn unavailable yesterday? Did NAMBLA schedule no meetings and post no newsletters on Saturday?” (Actually, that’s two, possibly, three questions.) Guys, the answer is Sam Gilbert, Sam Gilbert, Sam Gilbert. Use your Google powers, America, and brush up on the criminal element present in Westwood for many years (“yes” … receiving stolen property is a crime). BTW, many of us saw through Wooden when he was still coaching (if you wanna call a kind, gentle version of Tarkanian “a coach.”) But, when ya get right down to it, the point is somewhat moot because the two best coaches of all-time are Scotty Bowman and Chuck Noll. Basketball? Seriously … but since you asked, No. 1 all-time is Geno Auriemma. That’s a no-brainer. Honestly … let’s see Wooden win 88 in a row w/ today’s gals and today’s rules. Geno has a real chance to reach 100 in a row next season. Case closed … Next!
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- Gianni Aiello - Jun 14, 2010 at 2:07 AM
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Great post, Deano! All good people must have Rick’s back when it comes to a cause like this.
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- lanceManyon - Jun 14, 2010 at 10:14 AM
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Hilarious comments here! One guy wishes that Rick Chandler will die soon, and one guy actually compares Bobby Knight to Hitler!
Rick, when you get the yahoos all riled up this much, you know you are writing some good stuff. Keep up the good work.
And my $.02? Though I’ve never met either person, I’ll take a seemingly real person like Bobby Knight anyday over some Bible-thumping “saint” like Wooden.
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- Kevin Smith - Jun 14, 2010 at 11:58 AM
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They were both great coach’s, but up until this week a lot of people though Pete Carroll at USC was too. Now everyone knows how he won, get the best players by paying them whatever it took to get them there. Of course he would never do it himself!! Just look the other way.
To win most of his championships, John Wooden usually had to play two inferior teams in UCLA’s gym (or somewhere nearby) and he was in the final four. Tough road! And this was with the best players from across the United States that money could buy. (Sam Gilbert’s money)
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- Paul in KY - Jun 14, 2010 at 12:33 PM
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Bird actually wanted to go to Kentucky. Coach Hall thought he was too slow. If we’d got him, he probably would have transferred as Lexington is no smaller than Bloomington.
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- Bobby - Jun 14, 2010 at 1:25 PM
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Knight was and still is a ***** consumed with jealousy. He must constantly strike out with violence and verbal abuse because of his failures and small *****. He was never a great coach. He could intimidate and scare young men. That’s not coaching. When he dies, his players will not cry or praise him. The only reason I could see any of his former players calling Knight for, are instructions on how to beat their kids. They will **** on his grave and sing
ding dong, the wicked ***** is dead.
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- Dustin - Jun 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM
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Well, even though this is a despicable article, its getting what the author wants – discussion, hits on his website, links from emails.
As to the article, my first problem lies with his first paragraph:
“But to deny the man’s blemishes at a time like this is to actually diminish his overall beauty.”
At a time like this? You mean his death? Yeah, thats when you want to pile on. People forget that public figures also have loved ones, and they are grieving right now. Coach has quite a few more loved ones than anyone I can name, which speaks to his character. Note that almost ALL of them revere him as a man, and not as a successful basketball coach. Its apparent that they don’t view him as a hypocrite.
Second problem with this article: using Bobby Knight as a comparison? Way to draw moral boundaries between life and sports! Bobby was a great coach, but a horrible human being. He was a bully, publicly degrading his players, co-workers (especially women), and media. Say what you will about JRW, he has conducted himself with class. He has never asked to be deified, so to criticize HIM for how he has been treated looks more like jealousy than anything else. I suppose no one is allowed to quote bible verses, save those non-existent people that have never done wrong?
On to Newell: Great coach, and I certainly don’t want to be hypocritical by putting him down to make Coach look better. However, his achievements aren’t even in the ball park of Coach. They were both hall of fame coaches and great people as well, and I’ll leave it at that.
Re: Gilbert, and the comparison to USC that many have made here. Gilbert was an LA booster, who would drop $10 into the pockets of many players for dinners (BTW, he also supported USC football players, little known or publicized fact). He co-signed loans that the players paid for but couldn’t receive the credit to buy themselves. All violations, yes, no doubt. The comparison to USC in that these violations took place after the players arrived at campus (thus they did NOT help recruitment) is valid. Where it differs is that UCLA players in their heyday were basically hippies. No one was buying diamond earrings or driving tricked out vehicles, and the comparison to Bush who was given a HOUSE is laughable.
Anyway, we’re all entitled to our opinions. I choose to believe in a guy who was revered by a who’s who of college and pro basketball (minus two coaches, Knight and freaking Tarkanian, if that doesn’t tell you something), who achieved greatness that likely will never be matched. The author is free to believe in…I don’t know who. Apparently, no one should be viewed as a role model.
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- Dustin - Jun 20, 2010 at 3:41 PM
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Yes, Lew and Walton helped. What about the other titles? Coach won one with no player over 6’5″ (that played any minutes in a game, at least). I think thats pretty darn impressive, myself.
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- Gary G. - Jun 21, 2010 at 11:21 AM
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UCLA won 10 titles. Only half of those were with Lew & Bill. So how do you explain that? Ever hear of Waly Hazzard? Keith Erickson? Gail Goodrich? How about Steve Patterson? Sidney Wicks? Curtis Rowe? Dave Meyers? All won titles without Big Lew or the Big Red Head.
Knight dislikes Wooden because Wooden pegged Jerry Tarkanian for the IU job over Knight. Knight never forgot that.
To write that he’s “a phony” is immature and bitter. Did you EVER meet Coach Wooden? Spent some time with him? I say NO.
Knight is a hostile man, who has very little backing outside of Steve Alford. Coach Wooden coached during the most chaotic time in US history, yet still kept 20 year old’s focused on academics and basketball success.
I don’t know how old you are Rick, but from your writings, you’ve got years to go up.
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- JustAJoe - Jun 21, 2010 at 6:37 PM
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Any discussion of great basketball coaches would be incomplete without you, Pete.
I hope life is being good to you.
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- Quinn Buckner - Jun 22, 2010 at 10:22 AM
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The real story?
Knight asked Wooden to run an Indiana practice; Wooden refused.
Wooden ran a practice for Coach K (and many others, but you get the significance of Coach K to Knight); Wooden enjoyed running the Duke practice immensely.
In 1974-5, Knight had what he believed was his ultimate team. Guess who won the tournament with an underdog and then retired (he would be 65), never to be defeated by Knight?
That eternally steamed Knight apparently.
Knight also had a Final Four loss to Bill Walton that Knight can’t forget. He hates Walton more than Wooden.
Read Knight’s autobiography (rhetorical–it’s not worth reading). Knight is still obsessed with UCLA and his better. He has nothing good to say about anything connected with UCLA, much less Wooden.
Walton was not on the US Olympic team that lost to the Russians. “I guarantee you the USA wouldn’t have lost to the [blank] Russians if Walton had played.”
Another quote: “I never complain about a loss…. If the [blank] refs hadn’t called a phantom foul on Dowling, we would have ended the UCLA Dynasty. I still think of that call every day.”
His autobiography speaks for itself.
Abruptly retiring on his Texas Tech team in the exact middle of the season immediately after reaching a meaningless personal record speaks for itself.
And the irony of the pitiful Cleveland and present articles is that it was Knight himself who had the only real controversy with Calbert Cheaney. You’re hoisted by your own petard.
And the last official act of Stewart Brand, Knight’s boss who fired him and was elected to head the whole NCAA, was the John Wooden commercial that played during the tournament this year. The official letter was on his desk when he died.
Not to mention Larry Bird’s tribute to Wooden; Bird went to Indiana–immediately escaping to Wooden’s former school, Indiana State (Wooden coached great teams there–it’s where UCLA hired him from).
Bird chose wisely. And Wooden told Oscar Robertson himself that Bird was the greatest player he ever saw.
That sums up Bob Knight.
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- kim ucodog1@yahoo.com - Jun 22, 2010 at 10:01 PM
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rick – one thing is very obvious about your article. it is clear you never had the chance to sit down and talk with john wooden.
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- Jason - Jun 23, 2010 at 4:37 AM
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John Wooden was a lazy old fart who sat on his ass and did nothing from 1975 until 2010 when he could have been working at his craft.
